Original Author: Michael Saylor, Founder of MicroStrategy

Translation: CryptoLeo, Odaily Planet Daily

In a recent interview with CNBC, Michael Saylor discussed the rise of corporate Bitcoin reserves, the future of crypto policies, and a clear framework for digital assets, securities, currencies, and tokens to promote industry development. Odaily has compiled the interview in a Q&A format, and the full content is as follows:

Q1: Welcome, Saylor. This week, there have been many announcements focusing on corporate Bitcoin reserves, such as Gamestop's announcement of a $500 million Bitcoin holding and Trump Media's plan to establish a $2.5 billion Bitcoin treasury. What is your take on this new trend? Are they doing it right?

Saylor: There is no force on Earth that can stop a timely idea, and the most delightful development in the past few months has been the surge of energy and enthusiasm around corporate Bitcoin reserves. Trump Media's announcement was unexpected, and their move was extremely bold, proactive, and wise. The announcement from Nakamoto Holdings (the Satoshi Nakamoto Native Holding Company merging with KindlyMD to build a Bitcoin reserve) was also pleasantly surprising.

(Odaily Note: Nakamoto Holdings is a company newly founded by Trump's cryptocurrency advisor David Bailey — planning to collaborate with BTC Inc. to establish the world's first network of Bitcoin reserve companies.)

I remember telling David that if you believe in Bitcoin, you should raise a significant amount of funds to buy Bitcoin. I offered an idea, and I was surprised that he actually did it. I am thrilled. I also think the announcements from SoftBank, Tether, and Twenty One Capital are great, as they will bring SoftBank's significant funds into the Bitcoin market, much like bringing Masayoshi Son into crypto.

I think it's great that Tether is backing a publicly traded US company. Metaplanet was just a $10 million company before, a few months ago it was only worth $1 billion, but in the last week or two, the market cap has approached $4 or $5 billion, becoming the most successful stock. In addition, the French blockchain group is also rapidly rising, with astonishingly fast growth.

At this conference, no matter where I went, someone always mentioned to me: I started a Bitcoin reserve company in Hong Kong, I'm working on this project in Korea, I have a project in Abu Dhabi, we are expanding this business in the Middle East, we also have a project in the UK, we are planning to launch one in Kenya, we are launching one in Norway, we are also doing this in Germany. I think this is great for Bitcoin. Now Brazil's interest in Bitcoin is also experiencing explosive growth.

Each of these companies is bringing Bitcoin into another global capital market, they have solved compliance issues, capital market issues, registration issues, and even political issues. They are all ambassadors of Bitcoin, planting the orange flag worldwide. The story always begins with a bold move. Then it turns into: "Wow, this is a very successful adventure, I've never made so much money, tell me more about the Bitcoin story, how can I make this money?" Soon, a whole new generation of capitalists emerges, realizing that Bitcoin is digital capital, perhaps the most explosive idea of this era.

Q2: How do you view Wall Street's less enthusiastic response to the Trump Media and Gamestop announcements? After Gamestop's announcement, the stock price surged by 17%, while Trump Media's stock price fell by 22%, seemingly contrary to the response of the Strategy investors?

Saylor: You have to understand that when Gamestop announced considering a Bitcoin strategy, its stock price surged by 50%, and the trading volume increased tenfold. Subsequently, riding on this momentum, they entered the market and successfully issued $1.5 billion in convertible bonds, raising $1.5 billion, perhaps in the hope that the market wanted them to buy more Bitcoin.

So, I think Trump Media's case is due to the huge amount of financing, a large part of which is convertible bonds. It is important to note that when you sell convertible bonds, 70% of the face value of the bonds will be treated as shorting the stock. Therefore, convertible arbitrageurs always hedge stocks against bonds, long against short. For example, in the short term, if a company announces a $1 billion secondary stock offering, the stock will decline, and all these situations are short-term dynamics in long-term trends.

It turns out that Bitcoin on the balance sheet has become very popular, driving the growth of similar companies' liquidity. For instance, driving the increase in Gamestop's liquidity will also increase the liquidity and returns of other companies. This may take three months, six months, and sometimes even a year. But this strategy is very reasonable, and all these companies will benefit from it.

Q3: You were one of the first to adopt Bitcoin reserves, with Strategy's balance sheet having $6.2 billion worth of Bitcoin. Do you have a limit on the amount of Bitcoin you hold? Or do you have a fixed target in mind?

Saylor: No, we will continue to buy Bitcoin. We expect the price of Bitcoin to continue to rise, so buying Bitcoin will become increasingly difficult, but the efficiency of our Bitcoin purchases will increase exponentially. You see, in the past, we thought raising $200 million was a challenge, then we thought raising $2 billion was a challenge. Yet, in the fourth quarter, we will raise $21 billion. So, we will get better and better, with the price and value of Bitcoin having increased tenfold since we began this journey, and the ecosystem continues to grow.

But I think the Strategy is simple, which is to issue credit instruments like preferred stock, providing USD returns, or issuing a portion of the Bitcoin's upside returns while providing some downside protection. People will buy stocks, stock derivatives, or options because they want more leverage on Bitcoin; people will buy preferred stock because they want lower volatility, lower risk, lower leverage, and a guaranteed return. We will cater to both sides, and with the ecosystem expanding, there is no reason this model cannot scale further.

Q4: The executive order creating the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve actually delegated the task of finding a fiscally neutral way to buy Bitcoin to the Treasury and Commerce Departments. Are you providing advice to White House Cabinet members or do you have some suggestions for their approach?

Saylor: I think we have an amazing cabinet, with many Bitcoin supporters and great ideas, many of which have been put forward by the Bitcoin Policy Research Institute, including mentions by cabinet members. The decision on what the U.S. government will do and when is beyond my purview, but I do believe the U.S. faces a tremendous opportunity. If I were advising for the U.S., I would say, you know, all the world's funds are going to flow into cyberspace, into the Bitcoin network. For the U.S. to have as much of it as possible before the rest of the world catches on, it's in America's best interest.

Q5: I'm very curious if there has been a fundamental shift in the core idea of Bitcoin. In the past, people believed that Bitcoin should not be tied to any government or central bank, and now we see the U.S. showing this desire, wanting to become the capital of cryptocurrency, hoping all mining activities will be concentrated in the U.S., would this undermine Bitcoin's original positioning?

Saylor: If all these governments want to hoard Bitcoin now, I think that precisely reflects very healthy competition. Therefore, when the United States expresses support for Bitcoin, Pakistan announces the establishment of a strategic Bitcoin reserve, which encourages the UAE and the Middle East to also start accumulating Bitcoin. The adoption of Bitcoin is accelerating in Brazil, and the same is happening in Mexico, where businesses are also taking action. New York City Mayor Eric Adams took the stage to announce plans to issue Bitcoin municipal bonds for New York City, which will encourage Miami, Los Angeles, and San Francisco. Remember, this is benign competition. With resources abundant and everyone having a stake, the Bitcoin network is very resilient. The formation of this balance of power is because the more participants enter the ecosystem, the more diversified and distributed the protocol becomes, making it harder to corrupt and stronger. This means that it becomes more trustworthy for those large economic entities who were originally concerned about putting all their economic power behind Bitcoin.

Q 6: President Trump's meme coin TRUMP has sparked much controversy. Many people believe that this has disrupted many of the advances made on Capitol Hill in some cryptocurrency bills, which are now stalled, with Senate Democrats specifically mentioning TRUMP. How do you view this situation?

Saylor: I believe that for the crypto economy, the crypto industry, and for the U.S. if they want to build a $100 trillion digital industry, the best future depends on the law, and they should define four new asset classes:

Digital Commodities. Bitcoin is such an asset, with no issuer; next is digital currencies, such as the U.S. dollar stablecoins issued by regulated banks like Circle; then there are digital securities, like tokenized stocks that trade 24/7 and at the speed of light globally, or tokenized bonds; finally, there are digital tokens, such as tokenized fan clubs, tokenized tickets, some form of tokenized membership.

The U.S. has 40 million small businesses. And if you want to issue a token, to issue that must be able to be completed within four hours, it must have an issuer, and you must explain the utility of that token. The token should have a digital or real-world utility but should not represent securities, financial instruments, should not give you liquidation preference over the ongoing business, should not provide 30 years of fixed cash flow as with a bond. It should be the Joe Rogan token or the Katy Perry token. If Katy Perry wants to issue a token to provide her VIP fans with a 48-hour early booking privilege for tickets or concert tour, they buy the token, and the token is useful. But it is not a security. If she never does a concert again in her life, the token will implode. If her concert is great, the token will skyrocket.

TRUMP is a Meme coin, not a utility coin. How many people would sell such a useless token? Only a few people can do it. If they talk about TRUMP, if Kardashian wants to talk about it, or if Joe Rogan wants to sell something, maybe people will buy. I happen to think that all four of these assets have their own space. I believe the role of tokens is to allow 40 million small businesses excluded from the capital market to enter the capital market. But I also believe that tokens can create innovative business models.

If Joe Rogan says, "I'm going to sell Joe Rogan tokens, you buy a token and I will give you content that only you can access," if he wants to make money this way, as long as he doesn't deceive or defraud his customers, he's fine. If someone opens an eBay account and sells 47,000 tickets without delivering any, then obviously, tokens should be subject to consumer protection laws; that's fraud.

Likewise, if you engage in fraudulent behavior with a token, then you should be subject to consumer fraud and telecommunications fraud. I believe the issuer should bear civil and criminal liability for the harm caused. But keep in mind, this is no different from driving through a city; you don't need to wait four years and spend $40 million to hire SEC lawyers to drive through a city. Everyone should have the freedom to do business. So, we are currently in a transitional period, with no market structure bills, and no legal definition of digital currency, tokens, securities, or digital assets. If we want this industry to grow 100 times or 1000 times, if we want to export, want the U.S. currency to go global.

If you need digital currency, want to export securities from the capital market, Apple stock, ETFs, bonds, to the world, you need digital securities. If you want to realize all your ideas, raise funds for all small and medium-sized enterprises, you need crypto tokens. But if you want to export American values, such as sovereignty, trust, currency, freedom, you need to export Bitcoin. Bitcoin aligns with American values, so you need to export this digital asset. In my opinion, we clearly need to do a lot of work on Capitol Hill to put it into law, then these debates and anxieties will disappear. I think the most important thing is that having McKinsey lawyers write only a thousand pages of statutes is not enough; lawyers think you can litigate for twenty years.

You must define tokens so that a billion people can say in five seconds, "Oh, this is the Joe Rogan token, I understand it." You also must define currency so that people say, "This is a digital currency backed by the dollar, I understand it." If a billion people don't understand what I just said in five seconds, then it won't work. Once they understand, they will say, "This is a Meme coin, anyone can sell it." It's just a token, not a security, commodity, currency; it is outside the classification.

Q 7: Do you think it is a good idea to introduce an amendment to prohibit senior officials, including the President, from directly or indirectly profiting from companies related to stablecoins or tokens? Is introducing such a mandatory measure a good idea?

Saylor: A key point to consider, in my opinion, is that Bitcoin is a commodity, an asset with no issuer. This means that everyone in the government, whether you are the President, a Senator, or a Congressman, can own a piece of gold, can own a house, can raise a chicken, can own farmland, can possess timber, soybeans, a barrel of oil, and Bitcoin; Bitcoin is just a form of property as a commodity.

I believe issuers should be responsible; institutions issuing currency should be regulated by banking regulators and the FDIC because they create currency. Security issuers should be regulated by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission because if you want to print $100 billion worth of Apple stock, you need to own Apple stock and take responsibility accordingly. Token issuers should be held accountable for any harm caused by fraudulent behavior. If you commit fraud, then you should be liable under consumer protection laws and any other applicable laws. This should apply to everyone.

Q 8: Since January, we have seen the SEC, OCC, FDIC, and the Fed all rescind policies hindering the U.S. adoption of cryptocurrency. You have been here since Monday, seen a lot of people like Vice President Vance, David Sacks, you, what kind of conversation are you going to have with them next?

Saylor: I believe that what is truly important in the future is for the government to explicitly state that Bitcoin is a legitimate asset, it is digital gold, a digital commodity, and they need to promote to the entire world that this is not a security or a token, not a collectible or a currency. It is a digital commodity. Bitcoin has reached a market cap of $2 trillion without the support of a banking system, insurance companies, credit rating agencies, and mainstream media, and most authorities around the world are skeptical of it. Therefore, for Bitcoin to reach new heights and bring prosperity to us and the world, it needs education and promotion to the world.

Then, all these traditional financial structures of the 20th century at least treat it as a neutral asset. For example, the Department of Labor this week rescinded guidelines that discouraged people from allowing employees to include Bitcoin in their retirement plans, right? For a while, we were concerned about being investigated by the Department of Labor if we provided channels for employees to choose to invest in Bitcoin. So I think there is a lot of discrimination in the entire financial system of the 20th century, and the government should take the lead in guiding them into the 21st-century finance.

In addition, across the entire digital asset space, as I said, governments need to legally clarify three major items, digital currency, digital securities, and digital tokens, which will greatly help alleviate disputes, anxieties, confrontations, and conflicts. It will also accelerate the investment and development of all these digital assets by 10 to 100 times, making the United States the world's digital banker, world's digital capital market, and world's digital innovator, right? This is a good thing for the United States and the American people, and it requires a trailblazer to move the world forward. Without the United States defining tokens, currency, commodities, and securities, countries around the world cannot innovate. Then, every one of our allies will move forward, and you will see an extraordinary explosion of digital innovation, leading the United States and the entire world into the 21st-century digital finance.

Q 9: Over the past five years, I have been reporting on this event, and we have discussed before, from focusing on Bitcoin to this week announcing a lot around stablecoins, this is indeed a shift. How do you measure the integration of Bitcoin with other areas of the cryptocurrency ecosystem? Do you think we are moving in the right direction?

Saylor: I believe that the crypto industry is somewhat divided, the Bitcoin community and the cryptocurrency community are divided. From November 5th of last year, over the past six months, and possibly even the past 12 months, everything that has happened is an extraordinary close unity of the entire cryptocurrency industry, cryptocurrency innovators, stablecoin industry, Bitcoin industry, Wall Street traditional financiers, and political figures. They are working together towards a common vision.

People are now beginning to realize that the best thing for the world and the industry is a commodity. Bitcoin and its use cases - a long-term store of value, capital, currency, use cases of the digital dollar, are a medium of exchange applicable to everyone. Then comes stocks, with its use case being the creation of capital markets, innovation, and velocity. Its use case is to raise funds and create remarkable new products. Two years ago, I thought this industry only had Bitcoin, I barely tolerated it, but a year and a half ago, I hated everything else.

I believe we have entered a more enlightened political environment, and now people are starting to have calm, thoughtful, and constructive discussions. For example, I can understand why people in Turkey or Argentina might want to hold US dollars in their wallet. If you are a staunch supporter of Bitcoin, you don't have to be angry because they want dollars, maybe Bitcoin has its own use case. Then, if you value the dollar more, you would think Bitcoin is like a savings account for those who actually have enough dollars. And if you are a small microcap company, and there are 400 million such companies, they start thinking maybe there is a path, issue tokens to raise funds, and then use that money to grow my business.

I should not feel ashamed or embarrassed to need to raise funds to develop my business, there's nothing to be embarrassed about. But two years ago, their attitude was, if you're not a commodity, we will either throw you in jail or bankrupt you.

Therefore, people in the cryptocurrency industry had to go through this Kabuki theater, this dramatic scene, as if saying, "I must become a commodity, or else I'm done for." However, the reality is, they did not want to become a commodity, they did not want to be the next Bitcoin, they wanted to raise funds to develop their business in an ethical and transparent manner, but there was no regulatory pathway to do so. Now people are starting to realize that there may be an ethical way to sell tokens. I no longer have to hate Bitcoin. And Bitcoin supporters thought, "Well, now we can survive in this ecosystem and be part of it, maybe I don't hate stablecoin enthusiasts, or I hate cryptocurrency token holders, or I hate cryptocurrency exchanges, or even the entire cryptocurrency industry. But I think they are actually doing better. And, united, we will all become stronger."

If countries are to overcome their challenges, if industries are to overcome their challenges, then we must collaborate to create hundreds of trillions of dollars in value. The key breakthrough here is not technology but regulation, specifically digital tokens, digital securities, and digital currencies. The industry will grow 100 times, and possibly grow to $100 trillion or more.

Bitcoin's market cap will soar to the trillions, benefiting nations, benefiting industries, benefiting the world, that is the path forward for us.

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