Participants

Anthony Rosmas; Investor Relations; Shimmick Corp

Ural Yal; Chief Executive Officer; Shimmick Corp

Amanda Mobley; Chief Financial Officer; Shimmick Corp

Gerry Sweeney; Analyst; ROTH Capital Partners

Aaron Spychalla; Analyst; Craig-Hallum Capital Group

Presentation

Operator

Good afternoon and welcome to Shimmick Corporation's fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)
As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.
I'd now like to turn the conference over to Anthony Rosmas, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Anthony Rosmas

Good afternoon and thank you for joining us on today's conference call to discuss Shimmick's fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 results. Slides for today's presentation are available on the Investor Relations section of our website, www.shimmick.com.
During this conference call, management will make forward-looking statements based on current expectations and assumptions, which are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results could differ materially from our forward-looking statements if any of our key assumptions are incorrect.
We identify the principal risks and uncertainties that may affect our performance in our reports and filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which can also be found on our Investor Relations website. We do not undertake a duty to update any forward-looking statements.
Today's presentation also includes references to non GAAP financial measures. You should refer to the information contained in the company's fourth-quarter press release for definitional information and reconciliation of historical non-GAAP measures to the comparable GAAP financial measures.
With that, it's my pleasure to turn the call over to Ural Yal, Shimmick's CEO.

Ural Yal

Good afternoon, and thank you all for joining us on today's call. I'm joined by Amanda Mobley, Shimmick's CFO. I'm excited to be speaking with you today on my first earnings call as Shimmicks' new CEO. Over the last three months, I've had the opportunity to visit almost all of our active projects, meet our project and corporate staff, talk to our clients and our industry partners, and understand the challenges and opportunities that lie ahead of us. Building on these insights, I'm going to outline our strategy to make Shimmick the leading premier infrastructure contractor.
This strategy is designed around three strategic pillars: sustainable backlog, operational excellence, and people and culture. I will explain each of these in detail. But first, let me address some of the key points of our operational and financial results.
For the fourth-quarter 2024 and full year, we delivered revenues of $104 million and $480 million with an adjusted EBITDA of negative $27 million and full-year 2024 EBITDA of negative $61 million. Of the fourth-quarter revenues, nearly 77% came from Shimmick projects, which we define as the projects we won after we became an independent company after AECOM ownership.
Shimmick projects also continue to report positive gross margins despite weather impacts and delays and cost increases during the closeout phases on certain projects. We also achieved significant improvements in our SG&A costs in 2024, now trending towards industry benchmarks. Our backlog stands at $822 million, reflecting a 20 month runway to put our new strategy in motion.
We also finished the year with total liquidity of $100 million, a good sign of our forward momentum. We had some strong wins in the fourth quarter that aligned very well with our forward strategy. These wins include the wins in the City of Santa Cruz, the Murray Street Bridge project, and the Wastewater Treatment Plant Headworks Rehabilitation, North Hollywood Bus Rapid Transit project in Los Angeles, and our work at the California Palisades Fire Debris Removal effort. These projects span water, climate resilience, and transportation markets and are delivered through a range of project delivery methods and support our continued transformation into profitability and consistent results.
Amanda will get deeper into deeper detail on the numbers shortly. But before I start the strategy discussion, I want to touch on the state of Shimmick today. We are at the tail end of completing what we call legacy projects, which have continued to negatively impact our results in 2024.
We see very positive market conditions ahead of us that align with our offering, but we also recognize the need to move quickly as we look to replace the revenues and margins from divested businesses as we simplify their operations in 2024. We have a well-known and respected brand, which is critical to our backlog expansion strategy, a rare set of capabilities that make us competitive and provide turnkey delivery options and a better value for our clients; and most importantly, an impressive technically savvy staff committed to the future of our company.
We will love to offer to our clients in both public and private markets. While we have traditionally been more public client focused, going forward, we have an opportunity to balance our client portfolio, continuing our long and successful relationships with municipal, state, and federal government agencies, while winning new clients in the utility, manufacturing, hyperscale and industrial space.
What I've heard from our customers through many conversations since I joined Shimmick is that they've come to know us for our competitiveness, our delivery excellence, and our dependability. I'm confident that in today's construction market, challenged with skilled labor shortages and budget and time constraints, these are skills that will differentiate us and that we can build on.
I would like to now do a deeper dive into our focus markets. To take the most advantage of this value we provide, we will expand our focus on delivering sustainable infrastructure solutions across four key end markets: water resources, climate resilience, energy transition and technology, and sustainable transportation.
I will briefly discuss our approach on each of these markets. Water infrastructure is what we are known for and love. It includes water and wastewater treatment as well as storage, access, and hydropower projects. The robust market across the US and consistently sees predictable funding even with changing administration priorities.
Major drivers of water projects continue to be the needs to upgrade aging infrastructure, treatment of new pollutants in water as technology develops as we've seen in the emergence of PFAS treatment across the nation, water scarcity across the West that requires more water recycling and storage options, and migration patterns that require construction and upgrading of new treatment facilities. We are very comfortable in this market and we'll continue to look for opportunities across the West Coast as well as in select growth markets where we can leverage our expertise.
Second is climate adaptation and resilience. As the intensity and the frequency of weather events change and sea level rise continues, not only do we need to respond to emergencies and unexpected events, but the nation's infrastructure has to adapt to maintain our quality of life, our community's well-being.
We recently started working on the debris removal efforts from the devastating LA fires and we have already completed several flood mitigation projects in California, where we installed seawalls, gates, and levees to protect adjacent communities and businesses from severe weather events. We expect a strong pipeline of projects in this field, such as raising bridge elevations, upgrading storm drain systems, and weatherproofing existing facilities.
Next is technology and energy transition. It is well known that the computing power needs driven by rapid developments in AI technology have created an exponential increase in data center infrastructure investments. This work is spread out across the country as robust funding and has the potential to generate sizable revenue streams in short periods of time.
And the building shell generally is only a fraction of the cost of the facility where Shimmick can provide value is necessary water treatment, cooling and electrical work associated with these facilities, which often represent 30% or more of the overall project costs and are well within our capability. In 2025, we will be looking to expand in this market and utilize our expertise and resources either in a specialty subcontracting role to general contractors that are undertaking this work or directly to the facility owners.
While an amount of uncertainty has been introduced to the energy market with the new administration, energy security and efficient use of all leading sources of energy remains a national priority and we still see a robust growth opportunity here. For example, most of our West Coast transit and municipal clients have already started upgrading their bus and work vehicle fleets to electric and are upgrading their facilities to service these new fleets.
Also, electrification at seaports and airports is continuing and we see good opportunities for our turnkey offering in the battery storage sector. We are currently completing projects in this field at the Port of Tacoma in Washington and have done similar ones at LAX and at the Port of Long Beach.
And finally, sustainable transportation. Shimmick has a long history of delivering transportation solutions across the United States. We're seeing the merging of technology and demand for public transportation creating a steady stream of opportunities. These are once again opportunities where we can offer value to our clients with our turnkey solutions.
We have a robust list of projects we will be targeting in 2025 in this field, mostly delivered through lower risk alternative delivery contracts and see this field as a key part of our diversification strategy. And the good news is that none of these markets are entirely new to us. We have delivered projects successfully and have good client relationship in many of these markets.
With a strategic focus and an expanded bidding capacity, we have the opportunity to see growth in each of these markets. We are very optimistic about our addressable market for the next few years. The size of non-residential US construction market is upwards of $1 trillion a year, and Shimmick's addressable market within that is about $269 billion. Adjusted for our market presence, we viewed the addressable market at roughly $106 billion per year.
And with that backdrop, let me shift over to discuss our newly implemented strategic pillars and our key initiatives for 2025. Our first pillar is a sustainable risk balance backlog and a book of work. We are very focused on increasing our backlog at the percentage of our revenues while reducing its risk profile through marketing geographic diversification, project profile and size, and use of alternative project delivery methods. We are making investments in a reorganized estimating and bidding department and plan to substantially increase our bid volume and improve our win rates.
In the past, we focused on projects in California and California will absolutely continue to be a major part of our business. But given the market opportunity and our capabilities, as I discussed earlier, our core presence moving forward will expand along the West Coast, in particular the state of Washington, where we have a strong history and existing market relationships. We're also targeting selective national expansion and growth markets, especially in water and electrical work, where we have transferable skills, resources, and experience.
Along with this expanded geographical focus, another strategic initiative is to pursue and win collaborative delivery projects which align to industry trends. We believe that delivery methods such as progressive design, build and construction manager at risk, also known as alternative delivery methods, are going to be used in increasing frequency in the market. In fact, Design Building Institute of America is estimating the majority of the volume in our markets to be delivered through alternative delivery methods by 2028.
Our goal is to achieve a balanced portfolio between collaborative and fixed price delivery methods by 2028 as well. At a recent win, we secured the North Hollywood Bus Rapid Transit project, a collaborative delivery contract with Los Angeles Metro, a longtime client of ours, giving us a running start with this initiative.
This balanced approach of collaborative delivery and bidding aims to maintain our target margins while reducing project execution risk and allowing better management of our backlog through market fluctuations. Additionally, these projects are commonly delivered through joint ventures and strategic partnerships, allowing us to pursue larger, higher value opportunities. Overall, this strategy provides more predictable project outcomes and sustained client relationships, which in turn enhance stakeholder value over the long term.
On a third initiative, what I'm particularly excited about is our electrical and technology driven infrastructure market expansion. Across the construction industry, we are seeing electrical work taking a larger share of most construction projects due to technological improvements, along with growing needs of water, transit, data centers, and other segments. We believe our self-performing electrical capabilities offer an advantage in the market and a great value to our clients. We will expand our electrical division and position it to pursue and build projects on its own rather than just supporting the civil business as they had in the past.
We also see subcontracting opportunities in new markets such as manufacturing and data centers, energy transition, industrial transit, and healthcare. Electrical construction will grow to be a much larger contributor to our results than it is today, with an expected growth from 15% of our revenues today to a target of over 30% in 2027.
The market continues to be competitive, and it's critical that we continue to improve our operations for consistent results. Therefore, our second strategic pillar is our operational excellence. In 2025, we are implementing several initiatives that we see as low-hanging fruits designed to make immediate impacts on our operations such as upgrades to our ERP and sales and bidding systems and efficiency improvements to our IT technology.
Another area we're focused on is risk management. Fiscal 2024 was a successful year for Shimmick as far as resolving ongoing disputes on legacy projects, but we still have work to do. While it's not unusual for construction projects to experience scope growths, changes, and disputes, this year we're putting in place processes and measures that allow for early identification and resolution of these issues and a stronger and more structured collaboration with our clients, which we believe will have a positive impact on our cash flows and operating margins in 2025 and into the future.
And finally, we are continuing our discipline focus on rightsizing our SG&A after making great progress in 2024. We are continuing to make improvements in insurance, IT, equipment, procurement, human resources, and other corporate departments, and we'll continue to closely manage our SGNA as a function of our revenues.
The third and final strategic pillar has to do with people and culture. I'm impressed every day with our employees' broad-based technical talents and strong commitment to the mission of Shimmick. Our performance and safety is impressive, with a record that's significantly better-than-industry averages. We have a strong quality program. We are known in the market as a contractor that delivers technically challenging and complex projects and is a good partner to our clients.
With the near completion of legacy projects, settling of old issues, and a bright outlook on expanding our backlog, I'm focused on ensuring our people are taken care of to do what they do best.
This year, we will continue to work on improvements in employee benefits. We have already introduced a new performance feedback process and we're aligning our incentive program to reward strong financial performance as well as contribution to the company goals and mission.
We are retooling our title structure to ensure clear and achievable career paths for our employees, and finally, introducing a high potential employee retention program to reward and support our top performers, another initiative I'm very excited about.
To wrap up this part of the presentation, I see 2025 as our year for setting building blocks of our future. We have a strong foundation to grow from with a wide base of existing and potential clients, a well-funded market that aligns with our skills, and we are finally in a position to emerge from the negative impacts of our challenging legacy projects. With recent wins on a solid backlog, we have a great opportunity to implement our new strategy. I'm extremely optimistic about our future.
Our guidance for 2025, which Amanda's going to talk about in a minute, is informed by this positive outlook and our opportunity to get back to profitability, replace legacy revenue with lower risk new work, and build our backlog for the future.
With that, I'd like to turn the call over to Amanda.

Amanda Mobley

Thank you, Ural. All comparisons made today will be on a year-over-year basis compared to the same period in 2023. For the fourth quarter, we reported revenue of $104 million compared to $138 million for the prior year period.
For revenue on Shimmick projects, which focus on water infrastructure or other critical infrastructure, we recognize revenue of $80 million in the fourth quarter of 2024 compared to $85 million a year ago. The decrease was primarily the result of a decrease from lower activity on existing jobs and jobs winding down, partially offset by revenue from a new water infrastructure job.
Growth margin recognized on Shimmick projects in the fourth quarter was $2 million compared to $9 million of margin recognized a year ago. The decrease in gross margin was primarily the result of a $15 million increase in cost of revenue.
Schedule extensions and a decrease in revenue from existing projects that are winding down, partially offset by an aggregate of $8 million of gross margin from a new water infrastructure project and ramp up of a transportation project.
Legacy Project revenue was $18 million for the three months ended January 3, 2025, a decline of $28 million as compared to the three months ended December 29, 2023, as the company works to complete these projects. Legacy Projects' gross margin was a negative $12 million in the fourth quarter compared to negative $8 million a year ago. The negative gross margin was primarily the result of continued impacts of Legacy Projects winding down, as well as additional legal fees to pursue contract modifications and recoveries and additional cost overruns on other Legacy Loss Projects.
As a reminder, as these Legacy Loss Projects continue to wind down to completion, no further gross margin will be recognized. And in some cases, there may be additional costs associated with these projects which will be recognized in the period. We continue to actively pursue all opportunities to offset these costs.
Revenue recognized on the foundation projects was $5 million in the fourth-quarter 2024 compared to $7 million a year ago, driven by the result of timing of jobs winding down. Gross margin recognized on foundation projects was a $10 million loss in the fourth-quarter 2024 compared to a $2 million loss a year ago.
Our net loss for the fourth-quarter 2024 was $38 million compared to a net loss of $17 million for the prior year period, primarily due to a decrease in gross margin of $20 million as a result of gross margin declines in the foundation business. Fourth-quarter adjusted EBITDA was negative $27 million compared to negative $9 million in the prior year period.
Turning to the balance sheet, unrestricted cash and cash equivalents at January 3, 2025, totaled to $34 million and availability under the revolving credit facility and the credit facility totaled $15 million and $51 million respectively, resulting in total liquidity of $100 million.
We feel comfortable in our liquidity position at the close of fiscal year 2024, which provides ample runway to carry out our strategic and operational priorities in 2025 and beyond. Our backlog remains strong and was $822 million at the end of the fourth quarter.
The mix of our backlog continues to improve as Shimmick projects represent 87% of the backlog at the end of the fourth quarter versus 85% a quarter ago. This reinforces our team's commitment to be selected during the bidding process and focus on more profitable projects that will drive margins higher in our business.
For the full 2025 fiscal year, we expect Shimmick's projects revenue to increase 10% to 15%, with overall gross margin between 9% and 12%. Legacy Projects and Foundation Projects revenue between $50 million and $60 million, with gross margin between 5% and 15% as we complete these projects. Adjusted EBITDA between $15 million and $25 million.
With that, I'd like to turn it over now to Ural for some closing remarks.

Ural Yal

Thank you, Amanda. In conclusion, I'm simply excited about the future. We believe the next five-plus years to be banner years in the infrastructure construction business. And having resolved our legacy challenges in 2024, we are ready to take advantage of these healthy market conditions.
We have strong liquidity, a backlog largely free of past challenges. We have tailored our growth strategy of backlog growth, operational excellence, and people and culture to play to our strengths and deliver consistent results. Our talented staff, strong reputation and client relationships, and the substantial positive value of the services we are able to offer our customers put us in a great position for growth and strong financial outcomes over the next two to three years.
I want to once again thank all of our team for their tireless efforts as we work to make Shimmick one of America's best sustainable infrastructure companies.
Operator, you may now open the line for questions.

Question and Answer Session

Operator

(Operator Instructions)
Gerry Sweeney, ROTH Capital Partners.

Gerry Sweeney

Good afternoon, thanks for taking my call. So I don't want to take away from the growth strategy that we went through, the backlog, risk balance work, and operational excellence, people and culture, but I did want to talk a little bit about just the guidance.
Very happy with -- I think he said I think in total $15 million to $25 million on the front. But just looking at the legacy Shimmick work coming out of the fourth quarter, that was 2.5%, I think gross margin. You're targeting gross margins to 9% or 12% on the Shimmick work, can you bridge how we go from the results in fourth quarter to some of that guidance that you gave?
And conversely -- similarly, I should say even with the AECOM work, some of the gross margins seem to be better than they have been in the past. So just want to understand how we're going to move from the fourth quarter to some of this guidance.

Ural Yal

Yeah. Thanks, Gerry, for the question. Yeah. Definitely. So since I joined, as we look at the performance of active projects on the Shimmick side, leaving the Legacy side aside for a second, yeah, what I see in the backlog is profitable work and where we are with a lot of the projects, every company, every portfolio of projects have some challenging ones and some really good ones.
And based on our view of where the projects are and the remaining backlog on the active projects, I'm feeling comfortable with the 9% to 12%. The remaining work appears low risk and profitable. And we have some ongoing discussions with our clients for scope growth, et cetera, that we would be able to add to those margins in 2025.
So while the 2% on Shimmick project performance obviously does not reflect the 9% to 12%, we think we're going to do better in 2025 with looking at the remaining backlog. And then the other part of it is obviously looking at winning profitable work this year. A portion of that 9% to 12% would come from high margin work that we would win this year and burn as well.

Gerry Sweeney

Got it. Have you been able -- I know you've only been there I think three months, but have you been able to come in and make -- institute any changes that you thought that you may think could drive improvement with existing work? Or is the existing contract sort of they're baked in the risk and margins are what they are?

Ural Yal

No, I think there's opportunity there. A lot of our projects are somewhat mature, so maybe I wouldn't say it's a big opportunity. But there's opportunity around risk management improvements that we're doing, looking at identifying issues a little bit earlier, getting with our clients a little bit earlier, and resolving those issues before they impact the bottom line.
That's what I've been focused on over the last three months. As we go through the year, I'm continuing to review the operations and look for improvements there. But that's what we're focused on. That's what I see, I guess, most bang for the buck in developing the bottom line.

Gerry Sweeney

Got it. And then just maybe even cadence, maybe I should have asked this as a follow up. But maybe the cadence on gross margin on the revenue as we go through the year, I would assume that it's a little bit more second half loaded. It's sort of trends upward from Q1. Obviously, there's some seasonality in Q1. But Q1, Q2, Q3 better than Q2, et cetera as we move through the years, more better projects enter the work phase. Is that a fair assumption?

Ural Yal

That is a fair assumption. I think I would say it's probably third quarter heavy generally. That tends to track pretty well with general construction business tracking. But yes, I would say second quarter better, third quarter best, probably flat in Q4, something on those lines.

Gerry Sweeney

That's fair. And then finally, you and I have spoken a little bit, maybe transitioning from bid work to more negotiated work and obviously that takes time. Any thoughts on that or is it still a little bit too early to sort of delve into that?

Ural Yal

No, I think it's probably good to talk about it. The way those projects work is you win them today and then you have to go through a 12 to somewhere between 9 and 18 months of prep or pre-construction work, where you negotiate the contract costs and mitigate the risks and negotiate contract terms with the client.
So winning projects this year, which we've started with this North Hollywood project that I mentioned, those will become -- for example, that one becomes a, based on the client's estimates, $190 million construction contract sometime next year.
So we're setting the stage for being able to winning those projects where we negotiate the contract, construction contract, and book the backlog in '26 and '27. So that work has already started. We've already made quite a bit of investment in that side of the business, the sales, the early side of the business. And we feel we're going to see some great progress this year and set us up really well for '26 and '27.

Gerry Sweeney

Got you. And I mean, am I correct that it does take some time to sort of turn that that backlog over? So this is -- I think even as you were saying, '26 will be the start, '27 higher than 28, even higher than '27 per se?

Ural Yal

Yeah. My goal -- yes, that's exactly right. My goal is to get to a balanced portfolio between that type of work and our traditional fixed price work and even balance by end of '27, probably '28.

Gerry Sweeney

Is that the goal in general, just even balance? Or would it be -- is that just a target to get the 50/50 by the end of 2017 and may and potentially grow it thereafter? Or do you see 50/50 is the right sort of level for bid work and negotiated work?

Ural Yal

I believe that's the right balance. There are benefits to fixed price work. Margins tend to be higher. They get into construction faster, so they help the backlog faster. So 50/50 balance, I'd be very happy with.

Gerry Sweeney

Got it. That makes sense. Okay. That's it for me. I'll jump back into the queue but really appreciate it, and look forward to working with you more over the next year.

Ural Yal

Thank you.

Gerry Sweeney

Thank you.

Operator

Aaron Spychalla, Craig-Hallum Capital.

Aaron Spychalla

Yeah, good afternoon, Ural and Amanda. Thanks for taking the questions. Maybe first for me, obviously, sounding optimistic on the pipeline can kind of hear that. Can you just kind of talk about some of the federal budget issues, kind of IIJA uncertainty, kind of spending? Are you seeing any impact from that? Anything going on kind of in the local California market that's given you any pause or timeline issues or anything like that?

Ural Yal

Oh yeah, great question, and thank you. So we have not seen any impact in our active projects so far. Everything is going as planned and there hasn't been any funding pulling or anything like that, and that's largely true for the bids that we have kind of in the immediate pipeline.
If I look at federal funding overall, our portfolio is probably more reliant on the IRA funding rather than the IIJA. And I think even though there's some uncertainty there, the ultimate result there is going to be just different priorities but still work within our realm or within our capabilities. So I don't see the money necessarily going away, maybe changing direction a little bit under what's already been approved.
And water tends to be from a general EPA funding perspective. A lot of our projects are funded from the state revolving fund managed by the EPA and over -- the first Trump administration into the Biden administration and now we don't expect a whole lot of change because the need is always there and it's very well supported by the community, a lot of these projects.
So overall, we're not overly concerned. I think that maybe that maybe it's more of a pause than a rollback. And I think so far, our projects have been on track in continuing.

Aaron Spychalla

Good. That's good to hear. And then maybe second for me, can you just maybe talk a little bit more about the bid activity and pipeline? You kind of mentioned the four kind of growth areas. Just curious, sounds like, confidence and good margins in that pipeline and then just if you could also speak to kind of how you're feeling about labor availability and things like that as you kind of go after these projects.

Ural Yal

Yeah, thank you. I do feel good about the pipeline. I think the money may get shifted, like I said, in some different ways. But generally, we expect the funding to stay at the level that it currently is.
And a lot of the areas that we're growing in and that we would like to grow in in our strategy, which is heavily heavy on water and electrical, a lot of those markets remain well funded. I think one of the things that we're going to really look to do this year is to diversify our client portfolio so we're not overly reliant on one type of client and break into or improve our backlog towards private clients as well and find a better balance. That gives us a lot more resiliency over the long term.
On the labor side, I think the West Coast is still in pretty good shape. We are getting the qualified labor we need, our staff. We have some capacity in fact, I believe, based on what I've seen so far. I think we have some staff. We have some capacity to grow.
As you go towards some of the other markets, maybe less. So this data center AI improvements and the labor force that's been attracting has impacted other projects. So there's -- it's probably a little bit more challenging on projects outside of California and Washington. But generally, we're not seeing a huge impact just yet.

Aaron Spychalla

All right, understood. And then maybe last, can you just kind of talk about the outlook for kind of free cash flow based on that guidance as we kind of think about 2025 as well?

Ural Yal

Yeah. So we started the year really in a really great place at $100 million liquidity. And one thing Shimmick's done in 2024 is to put in controls that are much more stringent and detailed than watching our cash flow. So we have a really good view of where throughout the year where we're going to be.
And generally we are -- between our free cash flow and our credit facilities, we feel we are in a really good place to fund our operations, sustain some of this growth that we're planning, and still finish the year in a similar strong cash position.
Amanda, did you have anything to add to that?

Amanda Mobley

Yeah. No. Just expand on that a little, as you were saying, we continue to heavily focus on our cash position and make sure we are tracking against what we're budgeting for 2025.
And then additionally, we've also been able to secure a revolving credit facility for -- that would replace the mid-cap facility that we currently have, so for the same $15 million commitment. So going forward, we would have that availability in the next three years as well.

Aaron Spychalla

All right. I appreciate you taking the questions. I'll turn it over.

Operator

This includes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Ural Yal for any closing remarks.

Ural Yal

Thank you, everyone, for the questions. Like I stated earlier, we are very optimistic about the 2025 and looking forward to talking to you all again in Q1. Thank you.

Operator

The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.