Participants

Tyler Duncan; VP, Finance and Investor Relations; BigCommerce Holdings Inc

Travis Hess; Chief Executive Officer; Bigcommerce Holdings Inc

Daniel Lentz; Chief Financial Officer; Bigcommerce Holdings Inc

Ken Wong; Analyst; Oppenheimer & Co., Inc

Koji Ikeda; Analyst; BofA Global Research

DJ Hynes; Analyst; Canaccord

J. Parker Lane; Analyst; Stifel Nicolaus and Company, Incorporated

Maddie Schrage; Analyst; KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc.

Raimo Barclays.; Analyst; Barclays

Josh Baer; Analyst; Morgan Stanley.

Mark Murphy; Analyst; JP Morgan

Scott Berg; Analyst; Needham & Company Inc

Brian Peterson; Analyst; Raymond James

Gabriela Borges; Analyst; Goldman Sachs

Chris Jang; Analyst; UBS

Presentation

Tyler Duncan

Good morning and welcome to Bigcommerce's fourth quarter and fiscal year 2024 earnings call. We will be discussing the results announced in our press release issued before today's market opens. With me are Bigcommerce's Chief Executive Officer, Travis Hess, and Chief Financial Officer, Daniel Lentz.
Today's call will contain certain forward-looking statements which are made pursuant to the safe harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Forward-looking statements include statements concerning financial and business trends, as well as our expected future business and financial performance, financial condition, and our guidance for both the first quarter of 2025 and the full year of 2025.
These statements can be identified by words such as expect, anticipate, intend, plan, believe, seek, committed, will, or similar words. These statements reflect our views as of today only and should not be relied upon as representing our view at any subsequent date, and we do not undertake any duty to update these statements.
Forward-looking statements by their nature address matters that are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from expectations. For a discussion of the material risks and other important factors that could affect our actual results, please refer to the risks and other disclosures contained in our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
During the call, we will also discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures which are not prepared in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles. A reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures through the most directly comparable GAAP financial measure, as well as how we define these metrics and other metrics is included in our earnings press release, which has been furnished to the SEC and is also available on our website at investors.bigcommerce.com. With that, let me turn the call over to Travis.

Travis Hess

Good morning, everyone and thank you for joining us today. I'm excited to share our progress and outline our plans for 2025. I joined Bigcommerce in May last year because I believe in its potential to lead modern commerce.
And when the board asked me to take on the CEO role, I was excited to lead the company and do just that. While we haven't yet achieved the growth this company is capable of, we're taking bold steps to improve our performance. Today, I'll focus on the specifics of those changes.
First, the numbers. We finished 2024 with non-GAAP operating income exceeding $19 million, a $25 million dollar improvement over 2023 and nearly double our original forecast. Our non-GAAP operating margin expanded by 767 basis points, and we generated $26 million in operating cash flow, a $50 million dollar improvement from last year.
We made these gains by cutting ineffective sales and marketing spend by reducing headcount approximately 10% and by focusing on high quality bookings with our customers. This last year was a reforming one. We made major changes to our management team, rearchitected our go to market organization, and implemented an operating model for profitable growth.
It was a year of progress but not nearly enough to meet our potential. We did not achieve our revenue growth targets, and that remains our number one priority today. We finished 2024 with $333 million in revenue, up 8% year-over-year. Our ARR ended at nearly $350 million, a 4% increase, and average revenue per enterprise account rose by 9%.
We can and must do better. To get there, step one, we must improve the efficiency and the efficacy of our sales marketing, customer service, and strategic partnerships. This is crucial to unlock the company's full growth potential. Net revenue retention for enterprise accounts finished at 99%, which is below past performance and also below what I'm confident we can achieve.
Non-GAAP sales and marketing expenses were 36% of revenue, a notable improvement from 41% in 2023 and 46% in 2022. We want growth, but it has to be efficient, and the changes we have been implementing have set us up to do so. Now, I want to talk about the decisive actions we are taking in three key areas.
One, recruiting top leaders with staff and commerce expertise. Two, revamping our go to market organization, sales, marketing, strategic partnerships, customer success, and operations. Three, transforming our product and market positioning to drive growth. Let's address each.
First, our leadership team. In the last few months, we've added exceptional leaders to drive Bigcommerce's next growth phase. Michelle Suzuki joined as Chief Marketing Officer in January, bringing expertise from glass box and instruction. Rob Walter joined as Chief Revenue Officer in late January, bringing extensive experience from Oro, Salesforce Commerce Cloud, and Channel Advisor.
Marcus Groff, our new SVP of engineering, joined in January from AWS and formally Salesforce Commerce Cloud and Demandware. And Tracy Turner, our new SVP of revenue operations, joined in November from Hootsuite. Together they bring expertise that will be instrumental in transforming our business.
Over the last year, we have replaced the majority of senior executive roles in our sales, marketing, operations, and customer success teams. The new team is in place and I'm excited about the talent and enthusiasm this team has brought to our transformation efforts.
Second, we have completely re architected our sales, marketing, strategic partnerships, customer success, and operations organizations. We have three owned products in our portfolio today, our flagship commerce product, BigCommerce, our AI-based product data feed management platform, Feedonomics, and our brand and commerce site builder and visual editor, Makeswift.
Prior to the fourth quarter of 2024, teams, systems, and operational processes for these three products functioned largely in separate silos. We have integrated all three products both operationally and commercially and have organized the teams around three offering groups B2C, B2B, and small business.
We have a dedicated general manager over each of these three offerings, and our sales and marketing teams are now aligned with these offerings rather than exclusively by product. We are leveraging AI to enhance sales efficiency, enabling sellers and account managers to identify opportunities and create targeted outreach.
Specifically, AI analyzes customer and prospect attributes, use cases, patterns, and market needs, and aligns them to capabilities our products have in market. AI is also improving product support and core features from commerce site migration and development in big commerce to optimizing inventory availability, product data, and order routing and Feedonomics for more profitable and frictionless customer experiences.
In short, by predicting what our customers want and what barriers they may be facing in their particular market or segment, AI is enabling us to service them better, faster, and less expensively. We're ramping up our sales team, adding experience B2C and B2B sellers to target key opportunities and increasing the number of account managers to drive expansion among our existing customers.
We are on track to double our quota carrying sales team by mid 2025. Finally, we are transforming our product and market positioning. The recent launch of Catalyst at the National Retail Federation conference in New York in January is a prime example.
Catalyst is our accelerated reference architecture which leverages best in class components and tech partners, taking advantage of the scale and agility of composability at a fraction of the cost, time, and complexity typically associated with composable architectures.
This means robust capabilities, scale, and industry leading agility for brands, retailers, manufacturers, and distributors with significantly reduced total cost of ownership. Catalyst also provides best in class visual editing via Makeswift for business users and marketers without the need of developers.
We are planning a hosted version of Catalyst later this year, which will also include a self-service version of Feedonomics targeted at lower mid-market and small business B2C and B2B customers. The overall response from customers, partners, and commerce industry analysts has been overwhelmingly positive, and we plan to introduce more bundled solutions like Catalyst in 2025 tailored to specific markets and industries.
As we move into 2025, we remain committed to our three strategic priorities. One, re-accelerating revenue growth profitably, our top priority. Two, operate with discipline and focus, eliminating non-core initiatives to drive long-term growth. And three, execute our sales and marketing transformation. We've set the strategy, aligned the teams, and recruited critical leaders. Now it's time to deliver.
Transformations are challenging, but I believe in Bigcommerce's potential to lead the future of commerce. We have the right team, a differentiated approach, and an immense market opportunity. I remain confident in our path forward, and I'm excited to continue this journey with all of you. With that, I'll turn it over to Daniel.

Daniel Lentz

Thank you, Travis, and good morning everyone. I'm pleased to walk through our Q4 and full year 2024 financial results, highlight key progress areas, and outline our 2025 expectations. In Q4 we delivered revenue growth in line with expectations and significantly outperformed on profitability. Q4 revenue reached $87 million, up 3% year-over-year, while full year revenue grew 8% to $333 million.
Non-GAAP operating income, which excludes stock-based compensation, restructuring costs, acquisition-related costs, and amortization of intangible assets, was just over $10 million in Q4 and $19 million for the year, a strong improvement from $5 million in Q4 2023, and a $6 million dollar loss for the full year 2023.
Our non-GAAP operating margin improved to nearly 6% in 2024, up from negative 2% in 2023 and negative 17% in 2022. Cash flow also improved meaningfully. Operating cash flow hit $12 million in Q4 and $26 million for the year, a $50 million swing from 2023's $24 million dollar loss.
We reduced stock-based compensation as a percentage of revenue by 254 basis points for the full year, and we'll continue prioritizing minimal net dilution in our equity program. For the 12 months ended, basic shares outstanding were$ 77.6 million, up 3% year-over-year, and fully diluted shares outstanding were $79.5 million down 4% year-over-year.
We closed Q4 with annual revenue run rate, or ARR of nearly$ 350 million at 4% year-over-year. Enterprise ARR grew 7% to $262 million, now representing 75% of total company ARR. Non-Enterprise ARR declined 4% to $88 million. Profitable revenue growth remains our top priority, and 2024 marked a transformation across the business.
We instilled greater discipline and rigor, delivering significant improvements in profitability and cash flow. We streamlined operations, restructured go to market teams, and reduced headcount by approximately 10% as of the end of the year.
We also repurchased a portion of our 2026 convertible notes by an additional $59 million in early Q1 2025, leaving us with $154.1 million in total convertible debt, $4.1 million maturing in 2026 and $150 million maturing in 2028, and $126 million in cash equivalents and marketable securities after these repurchases.
Net debt now stands at roughly $28 million. Our financial position is strong, and our outlook supports servicing and repaying this debt. For Q1 2025, we expect revenue of $81.2 million to $83.2 million. We expect non-GAAP operating income of $4 million to $5 million. For the full year 2025, we expect revenue of $342.1 million to $350.1 million and non-GAAP operating income of $20 million to $24 million.
While we expect an improving pipeline as a result of our go to market adjustments and new hires, early 2025 growth will likely mirror Q4 2024 as our transformation actions take root. We are targeting mid single digit growth rates for the full year with ARR growth gradually accelerating. We're pleased with our better-than-expected margin expansion in Q4 and are aiming for additional low to mid single digit operating margin expansion in 2025.
We plan to reinvest where ROI is strong, balancing continued margin expansion and re-accelerating revenue growth. Our outlook assumes consumer spending and business investment trends remain consistent with 2024. Given macroeconomic uncertainties, we're taking a conservative stance, but to be clear, we are not satisfied with these projected growth rates.
Transformations like the one we are undertaking take time, but we are laser focused on unlocking this company's full potential and excited about what lies ahead. I look forward to sharing more at our investor day in New York on March 11. Operator, let's move to Q&A.

Question and Answer Session

Operator

(Operator Instructions)
Ken Wong, Oppenheimer

Ken Wong

Time to execute. Realizing that revenue will lag some of the progress you make, any key kind of benchmarks, KPIs that you would steer us to kind of gauge success and any thoughts on a timeline for when we might see some of these improvements?

Daniel Lentz

Hey Ken, I apologize. You broke up at the beginning part of your question. Would you mind repeating that for us?

Ken Wong

Yeah, I was just saying that you mentioned that it's now time to execute now that you have leadership in place. Just wondering kind of -- what are the right KPIs, the goalposts that we should be keeping an eye on to gauge that success and what that timeline could look like before we start to see some of those improvements?

Travis Hess

Hey Ken, thanks for the question. Yeah, I think the leading indicator initially is going to be obviously pipeline and quality of pipeline year-over-year, quarter-over-quarter. We're starting to see some of those signs now as we've kind of articulated in previous earnings, we would expect that to translate into improved bookings, obviously, and expect that to hit kind of halfway through the year.
But yeah, the infrastructure is in place. External messaging is going to start changing here first in probably mid-March around the shop talk show. And we think that will help accelerate obviously pipeline, but pipeline would be the first leading indicator of efficacy.

Daniel Lentz

One thing I would add onto that, Ken, is just from a metrics point of view as we go throughout the year, we're going to spend a fair amount of time talking about where we are both in a revenue growth ate but also in an ARR growth rate. We're being pretty deliberate in the commentary that we're putting out there about where we see pace of acceleration.
We expect to see modest acceleration across the year. We'd like to see ARR growth rates tipping slightly ahead of revenue, which we think from a metrics perspective is going to be. The best leading indicator that we'll be able to talk about on calls internally first focus is pipeline, and I think everything else will flow out from there.
But as we said, we expect the front half of the year to look fairly similar to what we saw in Q4 as we kind of finish the last pieces on transformation. We're in full execution mode at this point. We just expect it to take, a few months as we execute this and start getting the pipeline build that we want to see.

Ken Wong

Perfect. And then just a quick follow up for you, Daniel. The operating margin you guys are guiding kind of roughly consistent with where you closed out this '24 as we as we think about the path forward is -- Will we need revenue upside in order to see further margin expansion?

Daniel Lentz

A great question. The end point we're aiming for from a profitability perspective in 2025 is exactly where we were expecting and planning when we had our last earnings call. The only thing that's a little different from a growth rate perspective is that we brought forward some of the improvements that we wanted to make ahead early into Q4.
So, we just got to some of those improvements a little earlier than we expected. I don't think that we need to see material revenue growth beyond what we're guiding in order to get to the margin expansion that we're talking about. I think if we end up eating, beating the guidance that we're talking about, I think that gives us upside on margin expansion,
but we're also pretty deliberate to call out that our priority this year is re-accelerating our growth rates. We want to show balance in that and healthy margin expansion at the same time, but with -- as we are starting to see building pipelines, strong ROI on our sales and marketing investments, we intend to reinvest some of that growth back into further growth rate acceleration, but doing it in a prudent way so that we still see the type of margin expansion that we've called out in our guidance.

Ken Wong

Perfect. Thanks a lot, guys.

Operator

Koji Ikeda, Bank of America.

Koji Ikeda

Yeah, hey guys, thanks so much for taking the questions. I wanted to ask a question on sales capacity. I think in the prepared remarks you said. You're on track to double your quota sales team by mid 2025. So, o my first thought there was that that really sounds like it's a 2026 event with those new quota carrying reps from a pipeline conversion perspective.
So, the question here is how to think about sales capacity ramp to pipeline creation and then conversion with your with your sales team going forward?

Travis Hess

Yeah, great question. It's actually fully loaded; I think I mentioned in last earnings. We started with the reorganization with folks that had internal experience and tenure here for exactly that purpose to obviously shrink the ramp time. We've also been leveraging a ton of AI as it relates to training and enablement, which has been wildly surprising and how effective that's been, not only enabling folks cross selling products that
maybe they didn't have previous experience with, but also as we onboard folks just making it a bit more effective and accelerated as we onboard them. But this was all planned and I'll let Daniel add some color here but was fully loaded. I would not expect this to trail into 2026. This was all deliberately done to go drive efficacy in H2 of this year. Yeah.

Daniel Lentz

What I would add to that from a timing perspective, the vast majority of the resources that we're adding to roughly double capacity, that is already complete. Matter of fact, it was largely complete by the end of Q4. We still have some trailing roles that we're going to be recruiting in some cases specific to B2B and B2C, where we're bringing in a lot of expertise in those areas that we think is going to be really good for growth.
But we base the timing of the hiring plans such that we expect to see acceleration in the back half of the year and we're really aiming for acceleration that shows a strong rule of 40 profile as we're exiting the year. It's not going to be where we think the business is capable on a going basis, but we think we can show signs of progress.
But it's not such that capacity gets ramped up by the end of Q2, and then you've got another two quarters of ramp after that. We're going through that ramp period now such that we feel we can start building momentum in the back half of this year.

Koji Ikeda

Got it. That is very helpful. Thank you for that. And just to follow up here on the guidance, how should we be thinking about tariff risk? Maybe not so much on PSR volumes, but more so on customer spending priorities. So, what sort of considerations are in place in the guide to account for potential tariff risks?

Daniel Lentz

I wouldn't make it a specific tariff risk from my point of view, at least, I would just say that contributes to our overall conservatism from a macroeconomic point of view. There's a lot of things that are in flight right now that are in motion on the macro side of things. That's part of why we called out in our prepared remarks.
We're taking a conservative view and saying we're expecting 2024 to look similar to 2025. I'm sorry for the reverse, we expect "25 to look similar to 2024. That said, we are seeing encouraging signs of optimism within the prospect community.
We're seeing deals that went on pause shortly after the pandemic that have started to come back, especially some larger deals. So, I would say we're taking a cautiously optimistic view, but we think it's reasonable and prudent for the exact reasons that you cited to just not get ahead of our skis from a tailwind perspective in building out our outlook and plans for the year.

Koji Ikeda

Thanks, Daniel. Thanks guys for taking the questions.

Operator

DJ Hynes, Canaccord.

DJ Hynes

Hey, good morning guys. So, Travis, you've had a couple of questions on direct sales investments. Let me take the other side of that and ask about partners. How has the engagement been with those folks as you've kind of reshuffled the leadership team and what are they asking for from Bigcommerce?

Travis Hess

Yeah, it's a great question. It, it's been very bullish on the partner side, obviously leading with composability by definition is in accepting the fact that more disruption and innovation will come by way of third-party ISVs and partners.
And so, our job is really to make the ingestion of those capabilities easier, more consumable operationally, technically, commercially, and so I think it's enriched a lot of those partnerships now, as I alluded to in last earnings, we're going to be way more focused about who we double down with.
So, we've seen an intentional sort of concentration on both the agency and GSI side as to where we're partnering up as well as the ISB side. So that's probably been the most material change, and I think to the extent we're going deeper and more credibly with them. The response thus far has been really positive, and I would continue to lean into that going forward as well.

DJ Hynes

Yeah, got it. Okay. And then Daniel, what's the right threshold for enterprise NRR in your view and what needs to happen to get you there?

Daniel Lentz

Everything that we are doing from a transformation perspective ultimately is designed to bring NRR to levels that we think are best in class and where the business is capable of. Results in 2024 were very similar to 2023 and not where we need to be as a business. During the pandemic years we kind of averaged, I think, 113% roughly in NRR.
I think it's going to take us some time to get back there, but if you look at the investments that we're making in product. the leaning in on additional ways to bring monetization paths to our base, whether that's a self-serve version of Feedonomics, looking at what we're doing with Bundling, MakeSWwift looking at what we're doing with payments and checkout sack. We'll talk about a lot of these things in more detail when we get to our investor day.
And I think that all of those things can provide tailwind to NRR in a way that raises the floor growth rate of the business and ultimately yields a lot better profitability as well. And again, this is a lot of things we want to cover in detail in New York next month. We have a lot of things that are in motion that we're excited to share at that point. Yeah.

DJ Hynes

Look forward to that event. Thank you, guys.

Operator

Parker Lane, Stifel.

J. Parker Lane

Hey guys, thanks for taking the question this morning. Daniel, you referenced ARR as being the sort of guidepost for you into this year and expecting it to track ahead of overall revenue growth. Looking at that non-enterprise piece declining, exiting the quarter, what is the expectation around that in the framework of your commentary for the first half of the year?

Daniel Lentz

I expect the non-enterprise or small business portion of our business to be relatively flat on a full year basis. There's a lot of things we're looking at and growth factors in that part of the business. A self-serve version of economics as an example is very much focused actually on small business customers and mid-market customers, some of which happen to be buying enterprise plans, but many of which do not.
When we look at where we are from a pipeline perspective, we expect that to be flat, maybe slightly down in the half of the year. We're aiming for that to be largely flat on a full year basis. The priority for us remains moving up market and focusing on enterprise accounts, but we think that we have a lot of room to stabilize and then further grow that portion of the business over time. We have tens of thousands of small business customers, and we really want to find ways to expand that further.

Travis Hess

Yeah, I would say just to add some color on that. I think self-service Feedonomics, Makeswift in particular are two meaningful ways we feel could drive end payment. A potentially meaningful ways to drive more wallet share and more differentiation for that particular segment.
A target for that is probably mid-year, maybe into Q3, and so we're being a little conservative in how the excitement level there of how much that's going to impact, especially with holiday season kind of coming up shortly thereafter,
but I think longer term certainly an important part of our base but also recognizing that there's an opportunity to add a tremendous amount of value there for that core customer base and widen our TAM and create a bit more stickiness with the existing install base in small business.

J. Parker Lane

Understood. Thanks for the feedback there. And then Travis, quick one for you. On the strategic priorities you did reference operating with discipline and focus, maybe eliminating other non-core initiatives. Have there been things that you've identified that you'll continue to deemphasize throughout this year or is a lot of that work largely been done here and we should think about this as being more of a clean slate approach as we progress through '25.

Travis Hess

Very much a clean slate. I think Q1 will be the last of sort of some of the cleanup. We had a couple of sort of initiatives that probably don't align to the longer term vision, not that they were deleterious to the business, but certainly preventing us from from leaning more aggressively into things we feel mapped to our ideal customer profiles and our differentiation and market. So, I think the goal was to have that wrapped up by end of Q1 and a clean slate.

J. Parker Lane

Got it. Thanks again guys.

Operator

Maddie Schrage, KeyBanc

Maddie Schrage

Hey guys, thanks for taking the question. My first one's touching on sales and marketing efficiencies again. Could you give some specifics about what areas you cut to improve efficiencies and if you're taking those savings and putting those into the quota bearing reps that you added this year, thanks.

Travis Hess

Great question. Philosophically, we architected that entire marketing organization and in parallel re-centralized it more into a matrix model as opposed to running it compartmentally within region, which was an opportunity to decrease some duplicity and efforts and costs, certainly organically and at the same time, kind of level set best in class standards that we can then scale on matrix globally.
That was part of Michelle's vision as well, kind of coming in and kind of a key requirement of that criterion. So, that was probably philosophically the biggest thing that we did on the back-office side around data and there's still in-flight stuff around duplicity around CRMs and things like that we've talked about as part of our broader systems transformation,
but being really deliberate and focused of integrating all three product marketing teams within one group, having a single source of truth, and really driving the business very objectively off of the metrics as opposed to in theory, operating a bit more in arrears in our kind of our legacy state. By the time we kind of saw what we were doing, it was kind of a quarter late. We're in a much better position now to react in real time, and I'll let Daniel add any additional color.

Daniel Lentz

Yeah, Maddie, I could give you two specific examples of changes we've made specifically on the spend side as well. First, from an events perspective, we've been doing many events. Sometimes smaller events with really high frequency, we're reducing the absolute number of events that we're doing so that we can really double down on presence and resonance in a fewer number of much larger events which we think just gets better scale and pipeline build for the dollars we're putting in.
Another example I would throw out there is even on our relationships with partners and the GSI community. Our program in the past really focused on having a referral generation from a really large group of partners. We've changed the way that program is really set up to encourage depth of relationship with maybe a slightly smaller number of partners, but really rewarding the partners that are delivering the best
implementations and ongoing experience with our customers so that we're generating better leads and sending more referral commissions, frankly, to the agencies that are making our customers the most successful. I could give you other examples as well, but these things, they're not dramatic cuts. They're more like reorientations that allow us to have better efficacy at ultimately a smaller dollar amount. Yeah.

Travis Hess

I'll add one last bit of color on the partnership side too. I think because of the depth of those partnerships and how material they are to our strategic approach around composability, I and we'll talk more about this at our investor day in New York.
We're able to share some of those costs around MDF and other sort of not only outreach but triangulation around accounts and targeted accounts and events to actually have a lot of those partners help subsidize some of those costs while also driving additional efficacy, which was something that we just weren't able to take advantage of in the past.
So, that's allowing us to be more effective with less cost and investment there. That's helpful.

Maddie Schrage

Yeah, very helpful, and I think obviously that should add some crossbow motion as well, so it seems like you guys are in a good place and just a quick follow up in terms of the net revenue retention for enterprise accounts obviously at 99%, I'm curious to know what what's people's main reason for churn and how are you guys going to be addressing that?

Travis Hess

Daniel and I can kind of ham and egg that. One, I think deliberately integrating our two other products and being intentional about a better together story of being able to cross sell and upsell by definition will create more value and more stickiness and greater wallet share per customer, I think.
Not having that just made it very challenging to tell a bigger broader story and market and differentiate. So, I think that alone is going to make a big difference, and quite frankly just not being effective in our go to market and cross sell upsell motion in general, which we've talked about exhaustively in the past, that we feel we've cleaned up.
Materially, we're in a much better spot to be able to address that better together story and from a data perspective, from a strategy perspective, and you want anything? No, I think you, I.

Daniel Lentz

Think you answered it well. Thank you, guys.

Operator

Raimo Lenschow, Barclays.

Raimo Barclays.

Hey, thanks for squeezing me in. How dependent are the whole plants on the macro and what are you seeing out there? And I want to follow up.

Daniel Lentz

I would say, from an overall outlook perspective, as we always have, or at least have, over the last two or three years, we have not baked into our outlook a big change in macro trend. We tend to take a pretty conservative outlook in how we think about building guidance and building our internal plans because we don't want to be beholden to things that are outside of our control and hitting our commitments to shareholders.
So, as I said, we're taking the view that we're expecting this year to look a lot like last year. I would say overall that sentiment I'd summarize it as cautiously optimistic. We're starting to see projects starting to resurface. We're starting to see signs of, encouraging pipeline build. We're starting to see buyers start to be a little bit more open to making re-platforming decisions, especially if they put off those decisions.
That said, we are expecting the need to our number through really good tactical execution within our go to market teams. We need salespeople that are working their territories that are out bounding and building their own pipeline and increasing efficacy on the marketing side.
And if we start to see materially different improvements on the macro side, great, that's a tailwind to us that I think gives us upside, but that's not something that we are going to set expectations on when it's not ultimately something that we can control.

Raimo Barclays.

Perfect. Okay, that's really helpful. And then on the partner side, like on the one hand, you want to do more with partners. On the other hand, there's probably areas that you kind of want to do more, you mentioned payment.
How does that dynamic change for you guys because where we've seen it like with Shopify where the partners and then at some point when like, okay, well do I really want to work with you that much? How do you kind of handle that balance? Thank you.

Travis Hess

Yeah, we think it's a big strategic advantage. I mean, obviously, shop is a monolith. I think the concern and market is more and more capabilities will be native within that platform and eliminate or make some of those partners today partners superfluous going forward. I think for us we're embracing the opposite that partners can far outpace us from a disruption and innovation perspective than we could ever possibly do ourselves.
I think customers want optionality, now and in the future and the best thing that we could do is create a more affordable and ingestible capability to precompose and bundle those partner capabilities oriented to specific markets and specific industry segments and by easier, I mean commercially, operationally, and technically.
So, you'll see more and more of us in market bundling precomposed capabilities oriented to certain markets certain industries as accelerators to drive TCO and efficacy, and I think it's encouraging and we're getting a lot of enthusiasm from those partners
because essentially, we're creating our own marketplace with them and going much deeper with them within spaces that they can also differentiate in market by way of us. So, I see the partner aspect of this business only getting deeper and stronger going forward. We're philosophically aligned materially with doing that.

Raimo Barclays.

Okay, thank you.

Operator

Josh Baer, Morgan Stanley.

Josh Baer

Great. Thank you for the question. Wanted to unpack the enterprise account number a little bit if you could just maybe discuss the competitive landscape, impacting that number just wondering if you could break down are some of the challenges around the gross ads? Is there any change of churn?
We can start there. Thanks.

Daniel Lentz

Yeah, thanks for the question, Josh. I would say, we've seen stabilization in that over the course of the last couple quarters, but we're not aiming for stabilization. We're aiming for growth. We've seen some positive trends obviously on average revenue per account. I think it was up about 9% last year. It's good. It's not as good as it can be.
We want to see growth both in and the average size of deal. As we've been moving up market, I've said often I would be okay having slightly fewer number of customers if we moved up market and had a lot bigger customers because ultimately what we're after is dollarized growth and dollarized net revenue retention.
That said, we're not pleased with the fact that the number's been relatively flat over the course of the last few quarters. I don't think that the change -- that there's been a change in trend from a churn perspective over the course of the last year and a half probably.
It's looked fairly similar. We expect that to get incrementally better across the year, but again, we're building our plans, assuming that it's going to continue to be tough competitively and that we need to take really good care of our customers, and we need to do a good job building pipeline and growing from there.

Josh Baer

Okay got it. So, you're saying within the enterprise account number within that definition you're moving up market.

Daniel Lentz

Yes, that's correct.

Josh Baer

There within that account number got it and -- and then on the margin side I think in your prepared remarks, you mentioned low to mid-single digit operating margin expansion in '25, but I don't think that's reflected in the guidance if you could kind of help to clarify.

Daniel Lentz

Yeah, that's a great point. Our opening guide, I think we're taking a little bit of a conservative stance on where we expect this to ramp across the year, but we wanted to be clear for what we're ultimately shooting for as a business. And if you look at last year going into the year in our opening guidance, we said we were aiming for mid-single digit margin expansion.
We ended up at 770 basis points of expansion across the year and beat what we were aiming for. What we wanted to communicate are two things. First, we're taking a conservative outlook going into the year because we wanted to make sure it was clear we have de-risked the guidance and we feel that this is a number that we can hit,
but we also want to be clear that we're not settling for the guidance because we think and know that we need to do better both where we are on a revenue growth rate on an expansion basis. We need to re-accelerate growth and we need to do so profitably. And so, as we get across the year, if we, execute according to plan, I expect to take up our profit guidance as we proceed throughout the year.

Josh Baer

Got it, thanks.

Operator

Mark Murphy, JP Morgan.

Mark Murphy

Hey, this is already on from Mark Murphy. Thanks for taking the question. Travis, as you mentioned in your, remarks, you've been successful in bringing in a lot of leaders and rank and file personnel across multiple functional areas. Can you talk about how those new people are settling in and whether you feel like there's been any disruption to the business as you've been going through this process? Thanks.

Travis Hess

Great question. The settlement has been fantastic. I mean this has been deliberate in the order by which we've added folks very deliberately as part of the transformation. Obviously we've been very transparent about where we are in market.
We're fortuitous in the sense that there's a lot of talent out there in the street right now due to consolidation and in adjacent areas. And so, we've been very fortunate to have access to really experienced folks that are coming in that share the vision and see the potential that that certainly I saw and why I took the job originally and the upside here, which has been fantastic.
Obviously, several of them are recent and both Rob and Michelle joined in January. We just came out of both our Americas and AMEA, SKOs over the last couple of weeks. So, that was nice to get everyone together and a lot of shared enthusiasm. The external facing changes primarily around web assets and messaging and things like that, you'll start seeing that here in mid-March, which I think will be the most tangible, visible sign outside the four walls of the business.
We're excited to share some of that stuff with you all and In New York at our investor day and then continue to trickle that out across the remainder of H1 which we're really encouraged by but yeah, we feel really good about the folks here and how they're adjusting.

Mark Murphy

And Daniel, when you, can you talk about the assumptions that are going into your expectation for growth to gradually accelerate throughout the year and maybe what levers or factors could cause that air growth to kind of accelerate even further than what you're currently contemplating? Thank you.

Daniel Lentz

Yeah, good question. I would say from a lever's perspective, if you look at what we're doing from a transformation point of view, we are effectively doubling our quota carrying sales capacity. Those that headcount that's being added is both on the very high end of our customer account set and also creating teams focused on driving net revenue retention within our base,
which is also a much more cost-effective way of growing than I think we have in the past when we've been, I think, a little bit overfocused on new account growth as a primary means of driving growth, which we've talked about several times before in previous calls.
So, if I think about levers, we're staffing to grow at a far faster rate than what our outlook currently provides because we're taking a prudent approach to the ramp. But we're looking at this as a growth business. We think this is a growth business and we're leaning in to do it that way.
And I think if you take it from a staffing perspective, add in the changes and investments that we're making on the product side, whether that's whether it's catalyst or other future bundles, phenomics self-serve, a lot of things related to payments in that stack, which we'll talk about on our investor day. There's a lot of growth levers in this business. To Travis's point, most of which have not yet been seen in the market.
There's a lot that we have going on that we are working on getting out into market, but to be really clear, this is not the same team. This is not the same operating motion. This looks very different than how we've operated before. We have replaced the lion's share of the senior executive team across sales, marketing, operations, customer success. We're really enthused about the team that we have. We just need to go off and execute and show that we can do that. Yeah.

Travis Hess

And I'll add one bit of color on that like. As an example, B2B, we've got nearly 12,000 B2B accounts on the platform today. Arguably we're one of the largest, if not the largest, B2B SaaS player in the market. Over half of our net new bookings in 2024 were B2B oriented as well. You would never know that by going to our publicly available site and information.
Historically we've treated B2B as some additional features and functions as opposed to bifurcating our sales team, our account management team, our customer service team, and our go to market team to target that industry and industries adjacent to it with its own value proposition that's never existed before. And so you're going to see a lot of things like that that the presumption is we're going to drive a lot more authenticity, a lot more efficacy. And we'll be able to speak to things in the spirit around kind of those three core offerings small business, B2B and B2C going forward across our whole suite of products.

Mark Murphy

Perfect. Thank you.

Operator

Scott Berg, Needham

Scott Berg

Hey everyone, thanks for taking my questions here. I got two. Travis, let's start with, the new CRO, Rob, that just, came in and I think it was late January. Oftentimes we see CROs come in and make some of their own changes. You, of course, were brought in last year to revamp sales, go to market efforts. And I guess you've obviously made a lot through our discussions there.
But should we expect Rob to make further changes and create some disruption and kind of what you've all done or or he just running the playbook that's already been implemented.

Travis Hess

Yeah, it's a great question. I think it was a unique -- it's a unique remit in the sense that that I kind of came in and made a lot of those changes so largely Rob's going to execute against it. However, I would argue Rob's got a lot of skill sets bigger and greater than mine.
Quite frankly, I find them to be very complimentary to what it is that I do. What's unique about him is he actually has quite tangible experience across all three of our product lines, was at channel advisor, was at Amplience for a long time, was at Salesforce Commerce Cloud, and most recently at Oro.
That was one of the attractive aspects of it. He's got a rich history with several other leaders within the organization and also philosophically aligned with the motion we had already put in place starting last summer and the strategy that we're kind of executing again.
So all of that kind of perfectly aligned. It was what I've loved to have had him two months prior, yeah, selfishly, of course, but really fortunate to have him. He's excited to be here and yeah, I would not expect any disruptive changes or things like that. The infrastructure and the framework is in place. It's all about accelerated execution at this point.

Scott Berg

Understood. And then you know from a follow up Daniel, I saw the announcement on the KARNA partnership. Didn't see if there's any, kind of economic relationship or or benefit to you all. Can you maybe help explain, I guess, what that is? And if there is any sort of, benefit that's fruitful going forward? thanks.

Daniel Lentz

Sorry, Scott, real quick clarifying question. You broke up just a little bit. You saw which announcement?

Scott Berg

The KARNA announcement in the press release about your partnership with them.

Daniel Lentz

Yeah, I mean, it's obviously something we're really excited about. And I think it's something we'll probably talk about in a lot more detail at our Investor Day in New York.

Scott Berg

Got it. Thank you.

Operator

Brian Peterson, Raymond James

Brian Peterson

Hey guys, thanks for taking the question. So Travis, I wanted to follow up on the stat you gave on B2B being half of new bookings this year. I'd be curious what you're seeing in terms of the inertia in that market, maybe what you guys are displacing. And as you think about incremental B2B investments, how quickly can that kind of ramp up into 2025 and 2026. Thanks guys.

Travis Hess

No, great question. And just for clarity, that 12,000 accounts, that is obviously a combination of retail or small business accounts along with enterprise accounts, just for those doing the math behind the scenes. The trends we're seeing there are pretty encouraging. I would say it's a spectrum of opportunities on the smaller side.
You're seeing a lot of greenfield manufacturers and distributors looking to digitize their operation very quickly with smaller budgets. We feel we've played really well there, so we've got certainly capabilities for them to grow into over time, but something they can take advantage of really quickly.
So we're not really displacing anyone in that model other than their own either homegrown sort of operational model or their lack of technical acumen and addressing it appropriately. And then on the other extreme, you're seeing displacement of obviously legacy Adobe and Magento stuff. You're seeing legacy SAP stuff.
Depending on the nature and the complexity of that business, you're seeing one of two approaches, either a straight rip out and replacement. We're seeing that more in midmarket, upper midmarket. The big meaty sort of global enterprise opportunities, we're seeing very targeted replacement, typically starting within a certain line of business or within a certain market starting there, building it out, and then evangelizing it kind of a land and expand strategy within those larger global organizations.
The days of the big bang, rip something out and replace it with something else or long over. I think our approach with composability has lent us to be able to be very effective in doing it. But as you all know, B2B is really more of a cost savings dynamic of eliminating FTE labor, making field sales teams more effective, driving out call center costs, and also automating and synthesizing back office operations, typically centered around multiple sources of truth while also serving as a framework through future M&A to kind of ingest new businesses onto that same framework.
So very transformational in nature. Very meaty for services providers. So it actually is really exciting for a lot of our agency and GSI partners as well and certainly a place we feel we've got material differentiation and a right to win. Obviously, if you can't tell from my tone of voice, despite the caffeine, very enthusiastic about that space.

Brian Peterson

Appreciate the color. Thanks guys.

Operator

Gabriela Borges, Goldman Sachs

Gabriela Borges

Good morning. Thanks for taking the question, Travis. I wanted to follow up on some of your comments on Shopify from earlier and competition more broadly. Maybe just give us the lay of the land. As you've gotten dug in over the last several months and you look at the pipeline and enterprise, level set us as to where you think you're winning versus your enterprise competitors more broadly.
I know you already mentioned the the closed versus open versus Shopify. And then maybe as part of that, the new logos in your enterprise pipeline, where are they coming from versus some of your competitors or homegrown home built solution? Thank you.

Travis Hess

Great question, Gabriela. I would say, let's delineate between B2B and B2C. I just kind of talked about the B2B side where we're seeing that. We're seeing it upmarket, you're seeing both kind of mid-market B2B taking advantage of our kind of out of the box capabilities there. Less, on the enterprise side, the big meaty stuff, you're seeing it very targeted on these global sort of opportunities. These are folks that are typically running custom homegrown or they're running something big like SAP. They've got to be really deliberate about what that approach is.
Usually, and what we're doing this year around the product is kind of expanding our capability around CPQ and making that a bit more broad. I think the more robust that capability gets, the wider ultimately your TAM is. And so we're seeing those sorts of opportunities in the market right now. Those that are looking to drive efficiency costs and agility, but they're being very deliberate about how it is that they're approaching it.
And then you're still seeing a fair amount of greenfield B2B. They've never digitized anything within the business before they want to take quick advantage of it. It's kind of a healthy mix of both. On the B2C side, I would say to Daniel's points earlier, we are seeing an uptick in larger transformational deals around larger global brand and manufacturers. Less so retail, although we've seen some of that and really the embracement there is around composability.
They want the scale, the flexibility, the agility of composability, but without the downsides of cost, time, and risk. And they're really starting to embrace this concept around precomposed or curated composability oriented to an ecosystem that they would feel very comfortable with and taking advantage of our framework to go accelerate their own transformation.
Obviously those deals are very big, and they take a long time to nuance and sort of sell. And we're just now in the last couple of months seeing those sorts of trends. But generally speaking, that's who we see.
There is a definitive need or embracement of composability. There's nuances to their business. There are more complicated requirements that can't be achieved through other competitors and what their capabilities are and would lend themselves to look at us. Hopefully, that's helpful.

Daniel Lentz

And then just briefly, the answer on the logos, it's across a lot of different competitors. I mean, obviously we spent a lot of time competing with Shopify Plus, Salesforce Commerce Cloud, Magento, and a number of other platforms depending upon the region. I'd say from a new logo win perspective, it's across multiple competitors. I wouldn't say it's concentrated specifically with one.

Gabriela Borges

Yeah, absolutely, Travis, I think you're also uniquely positioned to give you a perspective here on what in the macro in any given year makes them more likely versus less likely for a larger enterprise to want to change. What I'm getting at is, we've heard, when the consumer environment is strong, that's when enterprises might be less likely to change because well transaction volume is high.
But on the flip side, well, when consumer is weaker, then you don't -- you become more reverse in making changes. But we'll just love to hear what are the factors that have to align to get enterprises more excited about modified upgrading for 2025.

Travis Hess

Yeah, I think the biggest thing upmarket to me is around risk mitigation. Quite frankly, I think these are large organizations independent of market that are going to lead with mitigating risk. And so a comfort level that we or anyone else can address their current and future needs and use cases and requirements, I would think that's the biggest determinant.
Certainly there are cyclical things around being locked into a contract, with an incumbent, and what the timing of that looks like. I think what what folks are starting to realize, Gabriela, is how much faster you can actually implement the technology today versus four years ago. Maybe the last time they went about doing this, that might have been a 12 to 18 month cycle, you're starting to see that cut in half now and getting them comfortable with that thought process of being able to accomplish what they did five years ago in a fraction of the time and cost.
I think you're going to see that. Trend continue and become more normalized. And as you see that happen organically, I think you're going to see increased demand, but it all centers around risk mitigation. Do they feel comfortable being able to accomplish that because in the old way, like, 18 months, 2 years to implement a platform is wildly distracting and disruptive to a large brand and manufacturer or retailer. So as that cost and time has come down, I think you're going to see demand sort of peak. If that's helpful.

Gabriela Borges

Yeah it is. Thank you.

Operator

Chris Jang, UBS.

Chris Jang

I have a question on the catalyst. And maybe just can you talk about the customer feedback, since the January launch at NRF? And how the cost savings, or functionality is resonating with your B2B and B2C customers. Thank you.

Travis Hess

Yeah, for the broader audience, I mean, catalyst is our accelerated reference architecture that we launched around NRF. In mid-January, we had, I don't know, a dozen or more clients kind of early on embracing it in all kind of shapes or sizes.
Listen philosophically they love the agility and the speed to be able to turn things on very quickly. They like the optionality and they like the freedom to be able to compose in a way that maps to their specific use cases and needs now and in the future.
I mean, it is -- it's not for everyone, not everyone views the world that way. And that's okay. And we're certainly not producing it in a way that assumes that 80% of the market is going to go run to it. Certainly a subset of the market will go run to it. I think the bigger unlock and where you'll see us take it is some version of catalyst precomposed, curated specifically to industries and markets.
And that accelerated sort of reference architecture will orient itself to market to allow very specific industries, especially those we feel are under service today or in need of transformation that can take advantage of composability and all the benefits without the risk of the cost and the timeline and complexity usually associated with doing it. So bundling that commercially, bundling it operationally, and bundling it technically. And you all can probably connect the dots of what the benefits of that would be obviously to us. That's where we're kind of taking everything on the catalyst side.

Chris Jang

Alright, I appreciate the color. And I'll definitely look to hear more at the investor today. And then just to follow up more on the financial side, maybe can you share some of the assumption if that's important for your guide or that's that how much of that is facing? And maybe just, if you can give some color on the cadence, that'd be helpful.

Daniel Lentz

Yeah, the FX exposure for us is very small. From a long exposure point of view, it's almost exclusively US dollars. We have short exposures in payroll and other areas from an FX point of view. But the exposures are so small. We don't even report results on a constant currency basis.
As we continue to grow and develop more sophisticated billing capabilities, and we will eventually end up with more foreign exchange exposure. It's just not material to the business at this time.

Operator

Thank you. This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Travis Hess, CEO, for any closing comments.

Travis Hess

I really want to thank everyone for joining the call today. I'm certainly excited for where we are and the changes that we've made to date. And now, it's time to get to work and execute, which we've alluded to several times.
Really looking forward to seeing many of you at our Investor Day in New York, sharing more. And yeah, excited for things to come. Thank you for joining.

Operator

Thank you. The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. We now disconnect your lives.